It's kind of strange that our existence has come down to working in an often unfulfilling job almost all of our waking time, and only finding fulfillment when you're out of a job.
ooh yeah I like this - I was only aware of their chiptune stuff. It's like they heard me wish for more bands that feel like Fang Island and made it happen.
But I keep being told that all jobs suck and I'm being silly seeking fulfilment at the place I spend 70% of my waking hours.
EDIT: in fact these days, people make fun of me because I sought fulfilment in my career as a whole, and it’s my fault now that I’m depressed that it’s gone. I’ve come across this snarky comment more than a couple times on this forum.
Sorry for your loss. I don't even see the point of telling someone else where they should find fulfillment and what things they get to grieve. I'm guessing it's coming from folks reality hasn't caught up with yet.
I struggle with this mentality as well. Just seems very unfair. I guess life isn't fair though, and maybe I should be more grateful for having this as a problem at all.
They’re gaslighting you - or just trying to convince you of what they need to believe to get by every day.
But often 6 of one, half a dozen of the other eh?
Notably, I’ve found the worse abuse happens if you still keep contact with folks like this after you find a way through. Talk about murderous jealousy!
Or is it a sign that life has an inherent cost that must be paid, and without the extractive institutions we’d spend our time scrabbling in the dirt attempting to grow our own food and sewing clothes together with dried grass and hides
Well, one thing is for sure - world populations were dramatically lower back then, and if everyone tried to get back to that way of life, populations would likely quickly return to that level or lower.
there is a level of extractiveness that optimizes for overall wealth and prosperity.
and overly extractive systems are unstable over the long term.
are you confident that the current level of extraction is optimal, or sustainable?
if a large part of society decides that it's not optimal or sustainable, where would you stand? prevent change? or seek equitable and stable redistribution?
there are so many examples of the inherent unwillingness for the beneficiaries of extractive systems to resist change: see the laws imposed against serfs following the black death, or the shooting and violent suppression of striking union workers.
that cycle is beginning again: MAGA, widespread rioting in France, Italy and other places.
There is economic and political injustice. Systemic extraction is passing a stable equilibrium.
relax the grip on power and resources, or spend the blood and treasure it will cost to maintain it.
but don't bullshit anyone with this 'life has an inherent cost': that's trivially obvious to everyone.
we are well past the point of collectively paying that cost. it's just not fairly or reasonably distributed.
> are you confident that the current level of extraction is optimal, or sustainable?
No, I just don’t think a class war is the answer. Equitable and stable resource distribution doesn’t necessitate retribution towards the current ruling class. An imperfect system beats no system at all.
thats what a ruling class representative would say. But historically elite rotation and elite replacement happened routinely, often violently, because they extracted too much and lost touch with reality
rich people are innocent, my issue is with elites in the higher echelons of power (not necessarily wealth) who are corrupt and do not deserve the place they are in.
Terrible. Which is exactly why people are trying to feed forward the message in discussion forums, before it actually turns violent. The problem is that the elites still aren't listening - rather they keep doubling down, as they've been quite successful at redirecting the energy to serve their own ends (eg the maggot movement for the latest incarnation, which is plainly obvious to everybody who isn't part of the maggot movement). But eventually that trick is going to fail, and the longer it has gone on, the harder the fall will be.
the reason we have weekends and no child labor is because workers died for it.
the state, the capitalists desire control, obedience and extraction. worker well-being is a low priority. workers advocating for better pay, safe working conditions, etc were routinely killed.
why is it laughable to say that there is a need to resist the injustice and push for better working conditions and rights for all?
the stuff that elites do to people is also a violence, for example denying the lifesaving healthcare.
it is just for some reason being tolerant of abuse and exploitation is normalized, people are kept on minimum wage that hasnt changed for many decades.
elites get to enjoy the benefits of rich society only because the rest of the people tolerate it, but it doesn't have to be case
Every once in a while I feel this -- "yeah we're being exploited!"
And then I remember that basic living has always had a cost to be paid. I doubt the first hunter gatherers sat around wondering if they were fulfilled. They just had a more immediate sight-line from their labor to their actual living costs.
Most of us here work well-paid jobs that allow us to pay our requirements and still have disposable income to enjoy our lives. But work we must; homes aren't free and neither is food and much of the entertainment we enjoy.
I don't feel particularly exploited. I fear if you do whatever menacing thing you're insinuating you want to do to the "exploiter class" then my job will go away and much of my lifestyle with it. Not sure that's a good outcome for anyone, really.
Homes aren't free, but many people here have parents for which one of them worked a single job out of high school and were able to provide food and shelter, buy a home, take vacations, etc for an entire family and they weren't in the top 5% of income. They weren't expected to be always online and available out of work hours either.
A little bit of historical knowledge, a little bit of reading statistics of wealth inequality currently being about the same level as France before the French revolution. A little bit of looking around and doing the math for what a schoolteacher, or someone earning the median income has to do to survive right now, and maybe you can develop a bit of empathy.
We are at a historical apex of economic exploitation in the US, where we have a trillionaire preaching about the dangers of empathy while giving billions to politicians to ensure he is never taxed or his companies regulated. We are the sons and daughters with far less security, working harder for longer and for less than our parents. We have more gadgets but far less peace or leisure or time to take care of our neighbors.
I think I have plenty of empathy. I just don't yearn for the guillotine for anyone, even our most wealthy, though I do support reforms to make them pay more, and allow the average working person to better afford life's necessities.
My point was that this all feels a bit rich on a forum with mostly well todo software engineers. You are not an exploited victim if you are making a high income working a white collar job in a comfortable glass tower, and the worst thing that ever happens to you is the occasional off-hour page.
even if I make more than average, I still can feel solidarity with the working class and understand how they are exploited even more than white collar swe.
the revolutionaries who fought for the poor, were often from the upper class themselves, and all revolutions were basically one subset of elites fighting against the incumbent elites, mounting the accumulated discontent among the poors
Do you realize how much money some people are making out of this racket while spending billions to convince you that socialized healthcare is the devil's work?
kleiba2 1 day ago
jareklupinski 1 day ago
Anamanaguchi - "Buckwild"
zabriel_goss 1 day ago
sp1nningaway 1 day ago
vconnor 1 day ago
EDIT: in fact these days, people make fun of me because I sought fulfilment in my career as a whole, and it’s my fault now that I’m depressed that it’s gone. I’ve come across this snarky comment more than a couple times on this forum.
Procrastes 1 day ago
Ancalagon 1 day ago
lazide 16 hours ago
But often 6 of one, half a dozen of the other eh?
Notably, I’ve found the worse abuse happens if you still keep contact with folks like this after you find a way through. Talk about murderous jealousy!
bijowo1676 1 day ago
next time when its uprising, there shall be no mercy whatsoever to the exploiter class
mcmcmc 1 day ago
cwmoore 1 day ago
lazide 16 hours ago
arbitrary_name 1 day ago
and overly extractive systems are unstable over the long term.
are you confident that the current level of extraction is optimal, or sustainable?
if a large part of society decides that it's not optimal or sustainable, where would you stand? prevent change? or seek equitable and stable redistribution?
there are so many examples of the inherent unwillingness for the beneficiaries of extractive systems to resist change: see the laws imposed against serfs following the black death, or the shooting and violent suppression of striking union workers.
that cycle is beginning again: MAGA, widespread rioting in France, Italy and other places.
There is economic and political injustice. Systemic extraction is passing a stable equilibrium.
relax the grip on power and resources, or spend the blood and treasure it will cost to maintain it.
but don't bullshit anyone with this 'life has an inherent cost': that's trivially obvious to everyone.
we are well past the point of collectively paying that cost. it's just not fairly or reasonably distributed.
mcmcmc 1 day ago
No, I just don’t think a class war is the answer. Equitable and stable resource distribution doesn’t necessitate retribution towards the current ruling class. An imperfect system beats no system at all.
bijowo1676 1 day ago
mcmcmc 1 day ago
bijowo1676 1 day ago
falserum 1 day ago
Starting tradition of violence is easier than stoping it.
bijowo1676 1 day ago
mindslight 13 hours ago
lazide 16 hours ago
What do you think our odds would be?
bijowo1676 15 hours ago
lazide 11 hours ago
bijowo1676 1 day ago
lurk2 1 day ago
lol
lmao
arbitrary_name 1 day ago
the reason we have weekends and no child labor is because workers died for it.
the state, the capitalists desire control, obedience and extraction. worker well-being is a low priority. workers advocating for better pay, safe working conditions, etc were routinely killed.
why is it laughable to say that there is a need to resist the injustice and push for better working conditions and rights for all?
card_zero 1 day ago
falserum 1 day ago
Does that happen now? How often? Are you or your friends at risk?
> why is it laughable to say that there is a need to resist the injustice
It is not, it is normal and necessary.
Thing that is laughable is push for violence expecting a good outcome.
bijowo1676 1 day ago
it is just for some reason being tolerant of abuse and exploitation is normalized, people are kept on minimum wage that hasnt changed for many decades.
elites get to enjoy the benefits of rich society only because the rest of the people tolerate it, but it doesn't have to be case
generic92034 1 day ago
mcmcmc 1 day ago
viklove 1 day ago
The extractive institutions are pleased that you believe this.
whynotminot 1 day ago
And then I remember that basic living has always had a cost to be paid. I doubt the first hunter gatherers sat around wondering if they were fulfilled. They just had a more immediate sight-line from their labor to their actual living costs.
Most of us here work well-paid jobs that allow us to pay our requirements and still have disposable income to enjoy our lives. But work we must; homes aren't free and neither is food and much of the entertainment we enjoy.
I don't feel particularly exploited. I fear if you do whatever menacing thing you're insinuating you want to do to the "exploiter class" then my job will go away and much of my lifestyle with it. Not sure that's a good outcome for anyone, really.
taurath 1 day ago
A little bit of historical knowledge, a little bit of reading statistics of wealth inequality currently being about the same level as France before the French revolution. A little bit of looking around and doing the math for what a schoolteacher, or someone earning the median income has to do to survive right now, and maybe you can develop a bit of empathy.
We are at a historical apex of economic exploitation in the US, where we have a trillionaire preaching about the dangers of empathy while giving billions to politicians to ensure he is never taxed or his companies regulated. We are the sons and daughters with far less security, working harder for longer and for less than our parents. We have more gadgets but far less peace or leisure or time to take care of our neighbors.
falserum 1 day ago
A bit self centered take.
Centuries(Millenia) of slaves would probably dispute that.
whynotminot 1 day ago
My point was that this all feels a bit rich on a forum with mostly well todo software engineers. You are not an exploited victim if you are making a high income working a white collar job in a comfortable glass tower, and the worst thing that ever happens to you is the occasional off-hour page.
bijowo1676 1 day ago
the revolutionaries who fought for the poor, were often from the upper class themselves, and all revolutions were basically one subset of elites fighting against the incumbent elites, mounting the accumulated discontent among the poors
soulofmischief 1 day ago
whynotminot 1 day ago
Wait a second-- I didn't do that at all.